Peterson Toscano's A Musing

I first heard about this story soon after it happened. I hoped the man would survive being attacked, but sadly he did not. The funeral is today. Anthony Anthos, a 72-year-old gay man whose great dream was to light the Michigan State Capitol dome in red, white and blue each Fourth of July, was helping a wheelchair-bound friend through the snow when a fellow bus rider irked with his singing, spouting gay slurs, bludgeoned him from behind with a metal pipe. Anthos lingered, paralyzed from the neck down, for 10 days before dying. A big crowd is expected at Tuesday's visitation and Wednesday's funeral in Center Line, Michigan, which is being funded by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.

Tomorrow (Thursday March 1, 2007 2:10-2:45 PM EST) I will be part of the radio program To The Point . Hosted by Warren Olney, To the Point is a fast-paced, news based one-hour daily national program that focuses on the hot-button issues of the day, co-produced by KCRW and Public Radio International. I think there will be four guest including Dr. Jack Drescher, a psychiatrist who opposes reparative therapy. We will talk about the ex-gay movement and the social and political issues involved in people seeking change from their same-sex attractions and gay identities. It is a national US program, so should be accessible most places and of course on the web. UPDATE: Now that the show has aired, you can listen to it here . I have a show tonight in Syracuse, but hopefully I will blog about it a little bit before bed (yeah, if my wild and crazy vegan, Christian, Quaker, gay lifestyle permits)

I just arrived back in NYC and sit in a taxi heading into Manhattan. Traffic is heavy and the sky is gray. At LA airport I had the unexpected pleasure to speak with Alex via Skype. How amazing that we can forge such important relationships through the web. I also met up with Eric for about 90 minutes (thanks for the ride to the airport!) and we talked about Catalyst, his dream to reshape the gay community in Long Beach, CA. He suggests we live as if we have already gotten our rights and full acceptance in society. Work to become good citizens who are not solely concerned with the issues that directly affect us and build healthy relationships all around. I also met up with Worthie (aka Momma) and we planned for our upcoming workshop/performance piece "Dragged Out of the Spiritual Closet" For True Colors in three weeks. . Both of us do mostly solo work, so collaboration takes skill and care. It takes listening, responding, yielding. Which gets me thinking about ex-gay leaders....

Believe it or not, I am in Los Angeles today (photo of view from my room above). I left cold and snowy New York early this morning and now I am in sunny West Hollywood. I am here for two days (more about that in a future post), but basically I have another opportunity to tell my story. I am really thrilled. I will also have dinner tomorrow tonight with Steven Fales, the creator of the one-person play, Confessions of a Mormon Boy which is currently running out here in Los Angeles. Hopefully I will get to see Joe G, Daniel Gonzales and Eric too before I head back to New York tomorrow night.(Check out Daniel's latest video expose ). Mara Schiavocampo who produces short films for Current TV , recently filmed me in NYC telling my story. She splices my story with black and white scenes from my play as well as an interview with John Smid of Love in Action. (See below). You can vote for this piece to air on the channel and not just the web site.

No this is not a reference to a TV show about the lives and relationships of metrosexual men. The M word as in Ministry . This pesky word has come up a few times recently. After my performance at Guilford College during the Q&A session, one woman stood up with the outrageous question, When did you know you were called to ministry and what is the nature of the ministry that God has called you to? I was floored by the question and experienced a rare moment of speechlessness. The next day at the Mid-Winter Gathering of the Friends for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer Concerns (aka Queer Quakers), several Friends came to me with the question, How can we support you in your ministry? Hmmm, you can start by not referring to it as a ministry; that word creeps me out. Besides I am a THEATRICAL PERFORMANCE ACTIVIST! I do funny plays (which you can read about in this new article that In Newsweekly just published.) Not ministry. Perhaps it is because I once felt very called to ...

Next weekend I travel to Minneapolis, MN to take part in the Soulforce Equality Ride training and send-off. I will also do a public presentation at a Quaker meeting house. First here is info about the Equality Ride: Homophobia is globally pervasive, and no community or school escapes its reach. In 2006, during the inaugural Equality Ride, participants traveled to nineteen schools and engaged students, faculty, and administrators in conversation about the damaging effects of homophobic doctrine, the false notion that lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender identities are sick and sinful. This year, the journey continues with fifty young adults going to thirty-two Christian colleges and universities. Two buses are taking the group on two distinct routes around the country in creative pursuit of social justice. In doing so, they are empowered to change countless lives. Love liberates the oppressed, redeems the lost, and resurrects the spirit. Saturday, March 3, 2007 7:00 PM (doors open ...

When I lived in Quito, Ecuador as a missionary and then later when I volunteered at Exodus' Latin American headquarters, I ate a lot of ice cream. I was not a vegan then, and freshly made ice cream they sold along the Avenidas tasted better than Bryer's ® ever did. Oh, and the flavors they offered! Fruits I never heard of before like Mora and Naranilla. Tropical flavors--mango, pineapple, avocado and even tomato. Most of my life I only had three flavors: chocolate, vanilla and my favorite, mint chocolate chip. But that all changed in Ecuador. Back in my missionary days I believed there was only one kind of gay--the sick pervert who engaged in sex anywhere and with anyone. He carried diseases, always tried to seduce straight men, and had no regard for God or any sort of moral code. At Christian college I would go with a group into Greenwich Village in NYC to tell gays that unless they repented of their evil homosexual lifestyles, they would burn in hell far from the presence o...

During the interview I gave today, the topic of my parents came up and their thoughts about gays and the ex-gay movement. I explained that while I was growing up my parents never said anything negative about homosexuality, and they never said positive, so I assumed that they felt the same way about it as all the other people in the world who made it clear that gay people were sick perverts. At age 17 I had become a born-again, evangelical, conservative (Republican) Christian and about that same time my parents first learned that I liked other boys. My folks became more upset when they heard I had become a Christian than when they discovered I was gay. In talking today, I remembered yet again how my parents felt traumatized by the Love in Action Family and Friends weekend. They walked away with the message, "You messed up your kid". They felt heartbroken, years later my sister told me that for weeks they were not themselves. They couldn't eat, the light went out in their e...

I adore to sleep in whenever I can. I draw the shades, put in airplugs and sleep until I can't possibly sleep any more. Yummy. But not today. I got up EARLY (8.30 am!) to clean my little studio apartment. a film crew arrives at 2.30 this afternoon to tape an interview for a national TV show (details TBA). You know how it takes guest coming to get you to straighten up; consider the cleaning frenzy when your home will appear on national television. Yikes! Of course I ended up utilizng my spacious storage spaces in my place.. I may be out of the closet, but today I loaded it with my junk.

Thank goodness for YouTube! I don't have a TV and was traveling yesterday anyway when the Montel episode aired that had Lance Carroll and me on it. But I got an e-mail saying that it was uploaded on YouTube (oh and a wonderful photo of Noa and son watching it!)

In response to my message to her, the Christian woman who has been corresponding with me (which I write about here ) replied with a long message with lots of scripture and teaching about the divinity of Christ and dire warnings of what will happen if I don't trust in Jesus according to her interpretation of the Bible. I believe she is motivated by love and a spiritual conviction to help me. After about a day, I wrote her back with the following story. This past summer I got to spend a special week with my mom. It turned out to be the last time that she was really well enough to get around and talk much before she left us. We mostly sat on the front porch. She read and I did my work on my laptop. Sometimes we spoke. It was the week where she accepted that she was going to be gone soon, so we enjoyed every moment we had. One day on that porch something incredible happened. As I sat at the table and my mom on the other side of the porch in her chair, a large pigeon landed on the table...

About two years ago I received an e-mail from an evangelical Christian woman who had read an article about me in her local paper where I talked about my ex-gay experience. She told me that God had put me on her heart to pray for me. We began to correspond about our faith and lives. She sent me lovely words of comfort when my mom passed away. She questioned me several times about my theology. Who is Jesus? she wanted to know. I did not avoid the question, but wrote about my faith and what it looked like. She wanted more, she wanted to know if I believed that Jesus was the SON of God and that he is Divine. I think I knew where she was coming from in asking that. As an born-again, evangelical, fundamentalist Christian for nearly two decades, I would insist that people have a "saving knowledge" of Jesus Christ and not just think of Jesus as a good man or prophet, but accept him as God himself in human form and the sacrifice for all of our sins. If not, I would pronounce (I belie...

Men have sex with men. Women have sex with women. They have done so for thousands of years. It's nothing new. Some are exclusively sexually and romantically attracted to people of the same sex. Some are attracted primarily, but not exclusively to people of the opposite sex. Some are somewhat equally attracted to both. Throughout history some societies have made room for these queer folks. Queer-- Deviating from the expected or normal; strange. (and often taboo) The sexual part of us is more than just sex -it is an opening to ourselves. Many groups and individuals have been stripped of their wholesome sexuality by the people in power over them. Women, people of color, people with disabilities, transsexuals, the elderly, and young adults have been treated as sexual deviants by those who have oppressed them. Either they portrayed them as sexless beings or painted them as wildly out of control sexual freaks. But the people who have exercised power over us do not get the final say, and ...

Some significant birthdays today. Composer and new friend, Lee Hoiby and I share a birthday today, and I am sure he is busy away at his piano working on his next composition. Happy Birthday Lee. But I have another important anniversary to celebrate. Four years ago today I premiered Doin' Time in the Homo No Mo Halfway House in Memphis, TN at Holy Trinity Community Church . After I accepted my gayness when I was still living in Memphis, Reverend Tim Meadows, the church's pastor who inspired one of the characters in the play, encouraged me to pursue my art by asking me to write a poem for Judy Shepard . That got me out into the Memphis gay community to interview scores of queer folks only to find out there are ALL KINDS of queer folks out there. A few years later I moved up North to Hartford, CT, and it only seemed fitting to bring my play to this Memphis queer church for the premiere. Bruce Garrett sent me the most wonderful personalized birthday cartoon. He remembers all my...

It's 4:30 in the morning, so that means it is time to change buses in Richmond, VA. We have many different Americas in the USA, and as a white middle-class man, I rarely get to see most of them. That is some of the privilege of my race and class and gender. But when I take the bus in my city or cross-country, I meet different people than on my plane travels or in a rental car. I hear different stories, stories I am not suppose to hear. Mostly everyone on this bus and the last is Black. So many people traveling to funerals. I met a man who lives no more than a mile from me in the same city. He is a year older than me. He had five sons but now only three because two were killed because of the violence in the streets. His one son got shot to death outside a pizzaria on Christmas Eve 2005. Most of these stories don't even make it into the newspaper. Too much Anna Nicole, too much crazy astronaut stories, too much entertainment news to lull me to sleep. In my new play "The Re-E...

I've written before about the Zen of Travel . Having lived in Ecuador and Zambia and NYC, I learned long ago not to stress out when it comes to travel. Things happen, flights get canceled, goats throw themselves in front under the wheels of buses, roads wash out, and no amount of fussing will make it any better. Yesterday morning the phone woke me. A representative from Continental Airlines informed me that my flight the next day (30 hours later!) was canceled and instead they wanted to transport me to from Hartford, CT to Newark, NJ by bus so that I can get a flight to Greensboro, NC. The ride usually takes three hours. I was groggy; I said sure, then I went back to sleep. Only later in the day did I realize what happened. I called and confirmed. Weird. So this morning I got to the airport at 8:30 AM for my bus. After a 6 hour ride in traffic, I arrived only to find out my flight was canceled and the next flight will not be available until Saturday (the day after my show in Green...

I spent most of the day in bed with Lucinda Williams , (she released a new album yesterday). Lots of snow kept me indoors as I prepped to go to Greensboro, NC to present at Guilford College and the Mid-Winter Gathering of LGBT Quakers . I have been thinking of Anna HP 's question about why a queer person would be part of an insitution like the Church after all the abuse the the Church heaped on us. Since I am on my PDA, I will have to wait to answer, but it is a good question to consider. Daniel C from Sweden e-mailed me about some prize the Rainbow Festival won and congratulated me, but I am a little confused with the Swedish article he linked. I heard word today that in Friday's edition of People Magazine they will feature Daniel Gonzales and me (yes we are the real fathers of Anna Nicole Smith's child.) No it is a bout Ted Haggard and the ex-gay movement. Now I sign off to read some of John Woolman 's diary before I go to sleep.

Last week Susan Campbell from the Hartford Courant interviewed me for her regular column . In response to the Ted Haggard story she wanted to know about my own involvement in the ex-gay movement and in the conservative Evangelical church. In telling my story I shared with her something that I nearly had forgotten. I was 17, had just become a Christian and my libido was on HIGH ALERT. She writes about what happened and the results of my actions and then my words. He'd been caught in an intimate act with another young man at a band weekend in upstate New York. As he confessed what had happened to the angry organizers, he saw their faces soften when he said he was a Christian and didn't want to be a homosexual. I learned such a critical lesson that night spilling my guts in front of those angry men. I learned that straight men will show me tolerance and even compassion as long as I admitted I struggled with my same-sex attractions. Throughout my career as an ex-gay, whenever I ...

Being single on Valentines Day doesn't ever really bother me because my birthday comes three days later. (Although in my childhood birthday photo, I look like I had a little too much cake and ice cream) Yes, I have officially entered The Birthday Season. This business of just celebrating on ONE DAY is so lame. One's birthday needs to be padded with several days of celebration. This year though I am not just celebrating my birthday. After finishing her book Zami: A New Spelling of My Name , I fell hard for Audre Lorde. What a mind, what a heart, what a woman. Her birthday is February 18 and had she survived breast cancer, she would be 73 this on Sunday. Over at Craig Hickman's blog , he honors Audre with a summary of her life. Here are some quotes by Audre Lorde: “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” “When I dare to be powerful - to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it beco...

zoëstrachan.com posted a thoughtful analysis of the BBC documentary, Sad to Be Gay. This piece was filmed in early 2005 and shows a BBC correspondant, David Akinsanya, seeking change for his unwanted same-sex attractions. His quest brings him to Love in Action in Memphis, TN. David interviewed Wade Richards and me in Huntsville, AL as part of his research. Strachan goes on to juxtapose same-sex attraction with the gay lifestyle (aka the bar scene for many) along with David's difficult childhood and reveals why someone like David would be dissatisfied with himself. What emerges sounds very much like the profile of a "successful" ex-gay leader who testifies how he has fled the evils of homosexuality and an empty lonely life and not simply the story of someone experiencing an inward battle over sexual desires. David is quick to deny he’s ashamed of his sexuality. It’s just that he’s been there, done that. “I’ve been out on the scene for twenty years,” he says, “And it’s not...

Michael Luo, religion writer for the NY Times, wrote a piece that looks at various ex-gay options in the New York metro area (and not just Evangelical Christian groups). He focuses mostly on the words and lives of people who currently identify as ex-gay, but he also interviewed professionals who denounce gay reparative therapy. “There’s not a debate in the profession on this issue,” said Dr. Jack Drescher, a New York psychiatrist and former chairman of the Committee on Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Issues of the American Psychiatric Association . “This is like creationism. You create the impression to the public as if there was a debate in the profession, which there is not.” The piece goes on to talk about LIFE Ministries in NYC, a ministry that according to Luo claims, "that complete “freedom” is available for anyone willing to put in the emotional and spiritual work." Although Luo states that "for every ostensible success story, there are many other stories of people who ...

Thursday night I hung out with filmmaker, Rory Kennedy, Nicholas Kristof, NY Times columnist and Pulitzer Prize winner for his writing about Darfur, actor and global activist, Tim Robbins, and the first inspector general off the Department of Homeland Security, Clark Kent Earvin. They spoke in Hartford on the Connecticut Forum's panel discussion, Saving the World . I wrote about the CT Forum before. We bring into town various people for on-stage discussions about things that matter--social justice issues, security, culture wars, comedy, literature, etc. As a member of the advisory board, the Forum often asks me to serve as a valet for guests. On Thursday they gave me Tim Robbins to look after. The best part is that I get to hang out with these fascinating folks for five hours as we walk them through the press conference, cocktail party, dinner, and the main event. In the limo and while we are waiting, we talk. On Thursday the behind the scenes conversations ranged from form Presi...

Have a listen to Daniel eloquently speak on Weekend America about his sordid ex-gay past. The announcement that Ted Haggard emerged from three weeks of intensive counseling convinced he is "completely heterosexual" has raised quite a few eyebrows. We talk about this with Richard Cohen, the author of "Coming Out Straight: Understanding and Healing Homosexuality," and also with Daniel Gonzales. Gonzales went through therapy to "cure" his homosexuality, but says it did not work. Daniel is in Phoenix right now where he protested Love Won Out, the Focus on the Family anti-gay roadshow and spoke to a lot of local press there. Go to Ex-Gay Watch to see some video of the press conference. Even Telemundo showed up! It is not easy to stand up as an ex-gay survivor. I know there are many who prefer to leave that part of their lives far behind them, and I respect that. But we need people like Daniel to come forward and share their narratives. The parents who want ...

Good news! I hear the Chez-est, the gay bar that was going to host a blacface dragqueen cancelled the event due to pressure from local activists. I love it when we see the results of direct non-violent action. Congratulations to all the activists for all the hard work!

Something is terribly wrong is happening right now in the white gay community in Hartford, CT (where I live). A white drag queen (who identifies, by the way as a Quaker Minister) is coming to Hartford in 'blackface' as a welfare mom with 17 children, calling herself Shirley Q. Liquor. And many (but not all) white gay men do not see a problem with this. As a Quaker, as a white man, as a gay man, as a comic performer who plays many characters including Black women, I can say that this is wrong on so many levels. That the performer and the venue will not back down or listen to reason, reveals the arrogance and ignorance so often among privileged white gay men. We cry victim because of how we have been oppressed, yet we refuse to see the oppression of others and our own contribution to that oppression. Local activists (mostly young people) have begun actions including a myspace page Ban Shirley Q . The local press has covered the story . And True Colors , an LGBTIQ organization for...

Both ex-gay activists and critics have raised questions about the validity Ted Haggard's masive change in such a short time. Ex-Gay Watch shares Randy Thomas Weighs in On Haggard's Recovery . When a local reporter asked me about the Haggard situation, I remarked how I learned at an early age that as a queer person in the church filled with shame and fear, the best tactic to take was the submissive dog position. (Not to be confused with yoga's downward facing dog position). You can see what happens when two dogs meet and one is bigger and stronger than the other. A dance ensues where the weaker of the two (or at least the one that perceives itself as weaker) hunches its shoulders, pulls back its ears, tucks its tail between its legs, turns to avoid direct eye contact, and lies on its back with its stomach exposed. Sometimes the submissive dog will even urinate to demonstrate its place. Look I humiliated myself for you. Faced with the power of the church, of heterosexual m...

I spent the day on the set of the Montel Williams Show , well, most of it was spent in the green room, but I did get to sit next to Montel and in front of a camera for a bit too. The theme to the show (which will air on February 20th) is Montel's Must See Documentaries of 2007 . Kids of Skid Row is a documentary filmed by a homeless teenager living on Skid Row in Los Angeles. Hip Hop--The Business Behind the Music is a film about sexism, violence, and identity in the Hip Hop industry (which will air on PBS on the 20th as well). Abomination--Homosexuality and the Ex-Gay Movement is a short film that looks at the dangers of the ex-gay movement. So the Montel people wanted me to appear on the show because of my personal history with one of the topics. And as you can see from this reunion photo of Chuck D and me, yes, I really did ghost-write rap songs for Public Enemy during the 80's. Okay, I am not ready to out myself as a rapper. But I did appear as an ex-gay survivor alon...

Wow, Ted Haggard apparently was healed of his homosexuality in just three weeks . Focus on the Family outsourced the healing to an undisclosed location outside of Phoenix. Perhaps like recent improvements to chemotherapy, ex-gay therapy today is stronger, more directed and with less awful side-effects (like say vomiting, hair loss, memory loss, weight loss--although at Love in Action we all experienced weight GAIN, but that other stuff too). Hmmm, I somehow doubt it. And here I spent 17 years and over $30,000 on three continents trying to straighten myself out and at best I lived as a "healthy celibate ex-gay" for a year or two at a stretch before having a tumble only to get back on that ex-gay pony again. But then Haggard did go to Phoenix for treatment while I ended up in Memphis. Maybe the dry desert air is good for more than just arthritis. I doubt it. I am not the only one who has doubts about the claims made by Haggard's handlers. Alan Chambers of Exodus appeared o...

I am in NYC today and tomorrow to do some TV interviews (more details about that in a future post), but as I traveled: From my Dad's in the Catskills via bus to the Port Authority Bus Terminal Then uptown to 135th Street via the #2 train for interview number one Then downtown on the #3 to transfer for the V train to 2nd and Second (that is the intersection of 2nd Street and 2nd Ave near Houston--pronounced House-ton) to where I am staying Then on the F train to West 4th (because it was too cold to walk and I am too cheap to take a cab) for meeting number one then back to 2nd and Second again... I thought to myself, I am so glad I lived in NYC for 10 years of my life ! Really. Getting around NYC requires superpowers. That or a useful skill like knitting. You may not use it for years, but when you need it, how sweet. Anyway, I have interview number three tomorrow but will get picked up by car service then driven up to Hartford afterwards, so it will be a much easier day. On Thursday...

I mentioned recently that my local Quaker meeting approved my Travel Minute and that I would post the minute here for you to see. Yesterday we presented it to Quarterly Meeting (basically all the local meetings in the state of Connecticut) and has it been approved there as well. Here is how it works (at least in my case). Soon after I began to present my play Doin Time in the Homo No Mo Halfway House , I asked my local Quaker meeting for a Clearness Committee. This is a group of people that I selected with help from the meeting who sat with me to help me get clarity about the work I had begun. I submitted a written report weeks in advance, they prayed about the issues raised, then they met with me. In the Clearness Process they mostly asked questions in order to help me to find clarity about what I should do. They also gave me some feedback. It was VERY helpful. Once I began to do the work in earnest, my local meeting organized a Support Committee (sometimes called an Anchoring Commi...

Daniel Gonzales over at Ex-Gay Watch along with film maker Esteban Rael, have put together a well done and absolutely essential video about the Spitzer Report. A study of gay conversion therapy released by Dr. Robert Spitzer in 2001 sent shockwaves through the American media despite serious methodological concerns. This video examines those concerns and goes on to examine how the study has been abused by anti-gay political organizations such as James Dobson’s Focus on the Family to promote anti-gay public policy There is a nice summary at the end and some fun about 2/3 through. You can read a full transcript of the video here.

I take a break from the Super Bowl (it's a USA thing) to write this post. Last week after my Homo No Mo show in Portland, I felt moved to write this post about Survivors. As soon as it published, I checked my e-mails and had just received one from a person named Lowell Greenberg. He had attended my show that night and wrote me about some of his own experience. Lowell's message resonated with what I had just written, and after getting his permission, I now post it for you. Thanks Lowell! I was in the closet for at least thirty years- very lonely- still me- but not really alive. That is a very long time. My life has changed dramatically in the last few years. I am out, gay, beautiful, successful and pursuing a spiritual life that is magical and deeply meaningful. Four years ago, I was close to suicide. Ultimately I made a choice- to live or to be who I was. Becoming gay was very natural for me- since I was gay. Right now, even more than gay, I am becoming myself. New people a...

This morning as I emerged from an 11 hour sleep-fest, I had a dream where I told a true story my old college roommate, John Bradley, known to all of us as Dancing John. I met John at the Intervarsity Christian Fellowship at City College of NY ( CCNY ) up in Harlem, NYC. The dream simply reminded me of the story of Dancing John. So I thought I'd share the real life story with you. The group was Black and Latino and decidedly pentecostal; I was the only non-Black/Latino non=Pentecostal in the group. Turns out our group was one of the only ones in the country with this sort of demographics. Intervarsity was a white Evangelical group (and may still be). John and I hit it off well although we couldn't be more different. He loved to dance and shout and carry on when we worshiped. I preferred quiet hymns and even quieter prayers. When I moved to a West Indian neighborhood in the Bronx, John took the second bedroom. We began to attend the same church and much to my surprise, one da...

Ben is a cool straight white vegan guy (oh and so much more). I met him in Chicago as he was passing through last month on his way back home to Portland. After coming to three consecutive shows in Portland (I should get him a t-shirt or something), we met up for a fabulous vegan male (um, meal) where he shared some of his incredibly reasonable and wonderfully presented thoughts on marriage equality for same-sex couples. an open letter to anyone that does not support homosexual marriage: first of all, i've always been a staunch believer that we shouldn't even have to debate the idea of granting homosexual couples the same rights as heterosexual couples. of course we should grant them equal rights. we're complete morons for not having already done so. snip the whole basis of the fundamentalist christians' opposition toward this is that homosexuality is "sinful." yet at the same time, those christians are willing to admi...